PTO-Driven water pump?: Tractor Implements  -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum and Review PTO-Driven water pump?: Tractor Implements -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum

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 03-08-2004, 16:39 Post: 79260
climber



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 PTO-Driven water pump?

I'm looking for a small pto-driven water pump for a spraying application. Does anyone know a good source? thanks






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 03-08-2004, 22:20 Post: 79282
DRankin

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 PTO-Driven water pump?

The only PTO powered pump I have found is a bit too big for spraying. It is sold by Northern Tool and delivers 20-24 GPM at 400+ PSI.

Norther Tool has several sprayer units that operate on 12 volts.... might be as close as you can come.






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 03-09-2004, 06:15 Post: 79288
hardwood

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 PTO-Driven water pump?

Climber,most any farm supply store, Tractor Supply, etc., will have a pto pump to suit your needs. Roller pumps are the least expensive, 50 - 75 bucks on up to what whatever you need. A small six roller pump will likely serve your needs for a small sprayer. Too much pressure or volume aren't a problem, you simply put a bypass line between the pump outlet and the valve for the spray system and return it to the pump intake line. I built a ten foot wide boom sprayer for the 4310. it also has a hand held nozzle for brush. I found a used liquid fertilizer tank off a junk John Deere corn planter it holds 70 gallon, that seemed about right, the tractor 3pt. handled it easily plus you have enough volume to last a while, I think I gave 10 bucks for that. The valve kit, nozzles, hose, etc, probably cost a 100 bucks. The saddle for the tank, three pt. frame, boom, etc. are all home made. I spray several miles of fencerows, the lawn for dandelions, etc. works fine. Hope this helps, Frank.






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 03-09-2004, 15:09 Post: 79335
climber



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 PTO-Driven water pump?

Thanks for the help. I should have mentioned that I'm spraying trees and must get the pesticide up 30 - 40 foot pinions and ponderosa so I need a bit of pressure.






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 03-09-2004, 19:30 Post: 79367
TomG

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 PTO-Driven water pump?

We've discussed the pump from Northern before and it sounds pretty good. They were out of stock the last time I looked.

I wonder if the outlet for a somewhat over-capacity pump could be split and looped back to the reservoir with a flow control valve in the leg? For training on the fire crew when we don't need to work with rock hard hoses we sometimes install a valved Y in our forestry pumps lines. That way we can adjust the pressure/flow as required or run another hose line if needed when the pump isn't attended.

Throttling back the engine also reduces the flow/pressure but you'd want to be sure the cut-off pressure of the pump is adequate and the flow at that rating will produce enough pressure given the diameter of the nozzles. The Northern pump might do the job and the price was attractive as I remember.

I did find a company that supplies PTO irrigation pumps. They are an entirely different order of pump but some of them start getting up into the fire fighting range, which is my main interest. Haven't it up though. The company's site is below.






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 03-09-2004, 19:41 Post: 79368
hardwood

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 PTO-Driven water pump?

Climber, Now that you mention you expect to put a stream of water 30 to 40 ft. up in trees I'd better retract 99% of anything I said in my previous response. I just assumed you were going to spray lawn and garden type things and a hand boom with 10-15 ft. of reach. the 25-30 GPM pump with 400 lbs of pressure might do the job. This type equipment gets expensive real fast. To push a stream of water that high you not only need lots of pressure but lots and lots of volume. A small stream of water has almost all of it's volume consumed in surface aeria, so no matter how high the pressure the friction of the air it is passing thru kills the speed of the stream almost instantly. However a larger diamater stream say like 1/2 inch in diamater exiting a nozzle at high pressure has lots of inertia and much less of it's total volume as surface aeria so the weight of the water in the stream combined with the high velocity (i. e.)high pressure produce enough ineertia to penetrate the air to get it that far. Kinda like comparing the water coming out of your 3000 lb. pressure washer at low volume only really going 8-10 ft where as a fire hose with lower pressure but lots of volume will reach a long way. I hope I did'nt ramble too long, but perhaps a commercial tree service could do the job cheaper than the high dollar componets to put such a unit together. Hope this helps and perhaps others with more experince could shed some light on the subject too. Frank.






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 03-09-2004, 23:31 Post: 79401
DRankin

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 PTO-Driven water pump?

The Northern pump would do what you want. Hardwood is right, 24 GPM at 400 psi results in a 75 foot "fog" of water vapor. A big cloud of mist. Certainly enough to envelope the type of trees you mention.






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 03-10-2004, 07:29 Post: 79416
TomG

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 PTO-Driven water pump?

I'm happy Hardwood broached the subject. I ducked because I was starting to ramble myself. I probably would have said something like 14 lbs. pressure gives around 30' theoretically, but then there's a bunch of loss in a stream. In practice, 14 lbs. goes zip in our fire pumps even with 1/4" straight nozzles. I think it's all in the nozzle. Much higher pressures and flows still go around 30' with a fogger nozzle but then they're designed to make broad fronts.

As I mentioned I do think the Northern pump has potential for doing the job but maybe having some flow/pressure regulation might be good. I'd think in terms of what it takes to get a fairly narrow fog type spray that distance. It might not be good if high flows are needed and more insecticide ends up on the ground than on the trees. I wonder if pros do it all from the ground or use booms to get the nozzles closer to the trees.






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 03-11-2004, 14:05 Post: 79566
climber



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 PTO-Driven water pump?

Thanks again for all the advice. I had tried Northern but they are out of the PTO kit and I was hoping to find the same pump from the manufacture or another source.
I currently use my 3 inch ditch pump with a loop back system to drain off most of the pressure and that leaves me with a nice strong stream for spraying. The problem is it's just too big. Dragging a 2 inch hose 25 feet long charged with water gets old fast so I was hoping to downsize the whole system to lighten the workload.






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 03-12-2004, 05:27 Post: 79616
TomG

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 PTO-Driven water pump?

That Northern pump sure does sound interesting but I suspect there's supply problems. It also was out of stock or something when I checked 4 - 6 months ago. I seem to recall that it's Italian manufactured.

I wonder if using an adapter to downsize the hose might be worthwhile? We adapt the 2" outlet on our pumper truck to two 1 1/2" outlets for our forestry hoses. There's a bunch of adapter stuff available. We use something called a water-thief in our fire hose to fill backpack pumps. It provides a valve controlled outlet that is 1/2" or maybe 3/4" and might be about right to feed a sprayer. A flow control valve in the main outlet could regulate the pressure.

I sympathize with the problem. It takes two persons minimum (and we train for three) just to handle our 1 1/2" fire hoses--although they would be carrying higher pressure and comes in 100' lengths. We do run our foam unit at 80-lbs. off the pumper truck to extend our pumping time. It still takes hose handlers to keep the canvas hose from crimping and cutting off the flow. A nozzle-man just can't do the job very well if he has to drag hose around or the flow cuts off sometimes.






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