Pulling small Trees out with 3point: Tractor Implements  -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum and Review Pulling small Trees out with 3point: Tractor Implements -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum

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 02-07-2002, 06:37 Post: 35358
Rick



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 Pulling small Trees out with 3point

Some where I read about a guy who made a thing for his 3 point to pull small trees out. He even had a drawing of it and now I don't know where I seen It . Has anyone else seen this
Thanks
Rick






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 02-07-2002, 12:02 Post: 35373
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 Pulling small Trees out with 3point

Rick, I would like to see this as well. I usually just wrap a chain around small trees, posts, etc. Of course, I don't make a habit out of pulling trees out the ground. Just dead ones.






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 02-08-2002, 17:48 Post: 35413
dsg

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 Pulling small Trees out with 3point

Rick,

Pulling out trees should never be done with the rear of a tractor, good way of doing a dangerous wheely.

David






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 02-09-2002, 06:21 Post: 35422
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 Pulling small Trees out with 3point

I've a slight qualification for David's comment. I think it depends if the tow point is the 3ph (which is the original question) or the drawbar. I believe most safety stuff says that the drawbar is the only point designed for towing. Towing from the 3ph does risk a wheely.

3ph's were invented to reduce tractor overturns, but they depend on implements designed to rotate on their lower link pins to produce compression in the top-link. Simply pulling from the lower links is done all the time, but operators should be aware of the risks taken.






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 02-09-2002, 09:02 Post: 35425
Peters

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 Pulling small Trees out with 3point

As stated pulling using only the bottom two links is dangerous.
I have a 2 pt draw bar and use it a light pup trailer created from a 1920's pickup bed, but I can easily move the trailer loaded by hand even when loaded. I like the 3 point arrangement for this as it has a pin hitch and I can dump the trailer by raising the 3 pt.
Heavier loads should be done using the draw bar or a 3 pt arrangement. I think the main problem with the 3 pt draw bar is that you are moving the weight application point back away from the tractor and depending on the 3 pt hitch setting up from below the center of gravity. The only 3 pt system I have seen costs $200. The main advantage is the hook up time.
I am at this point uncertain if this creates a real problem for an experience tractor operator. We have done somethings with a 3 pt and a goose neck hitch that in theory should cause problems. With the larger tractors and extra weight used to date this does not seem to be a problem and a real time saver on the farm.






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 02-09-2002, 15:21 Post: 35431
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 Pulling small Trees out with 3point

I am not certain as to the dangers being described here. Can someone sum it up a bit for me. When I pull t-posts out of the ground I use only the the bottom links of my 3pt. If the task is too great for my hitch, a valve opens and fluid begins to cycle. The front end of the tractor does not lift up. My hitch on my JD650 is only rated for about 1,000 lbs. I am upgrading to a larger machine (hopefully, on Monday (JD4400)). I think I am understanding that a hookup involving all three points is safer?






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 02-09-2002, 18:58 Post: 35436
tgello



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 Pulling small Trees out with 3point

i am a little baffled with the pulling trees out of the ground with a chain? is it to rip them out and dispose of them or up root them and replant them elswhere? if the latter i would use a tree spade, for the sake of the tree. or a shovel and some back. to rip them out with a chain can get a little dangerous if the chain slips off while you on the throttle. if you do use a chain ,take a second chain and lay it over the pulling chain so if it slips the second chain will lesson the recoil of the pulling chain. tgello






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 02-09-2002, 19:19 Post: 35437
Peters

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 Pulling small Trees out with 3point

There is some confusion here. If you are static and just lifting with the three point hitch then there really is no problem. If you are careful and the front end lifts a little then you can let it down again.
The problem arises if you use the 3 pt to connect and then use the tractor to pull.
Back tracking, the three point hitch was developed for inplements and primarily the bottom plow. The problem was that farmers were used to horses and just breaking a harness or stopping the horses when they struck a root, rock or other immovable object. With a tractor and a draw bar, farmers would hit the root etc. and the tractor would walk up and over killing him underneath it. The action is very fast and unless he instantaniously jumped on the clutch he did not have a chance.
If you have ever had a tractor do this unexpectedly it is a unpleasent experience.
When drawing equipment forces from the lower arms are below the rear axel's center line. The links pivot allowing a portion of the load to be transfered to the upper link. The upper link is much higher than the center point of the rear axel. The pulling load on the arms is then transferred to the upper link placing it in compression. This force is the applied to push the front down as the tractor pulls the implement forward.
The danger is when you use just the lower links to pull. As the highth is adjustable one can place the links above the center line of the rear axel. The forces applied then increase the lifting force on the front end and increase the likelihood of the tractor walking over.
Unfortunately in todays age there are a lot of attachments that are using the 3 pt for more than tillage implements and the forces on the tractor are not as initially intended.






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 02-09-2002, 20:50 Post: 35440
Mrwurm



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 Pulling small Trees out with 3point

To be more specific, I will try to explain what I have done in the past. I have planted many trees on my property over the past 5 years. Some trees just did'nt make it. Some had fireblight. I hand dig around these tress the best I can, then I use the 3pt lower arms and a chain to lift the tree out of the hole and break the remaining roots that I can't get to with a shovel. I do this while standing next to the tractor. The tractor is in neutral and parking break set. I use the same procedure to pull out t-posts.






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 02-10-2002, 06:43 Post: 35443
TomG

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 Pulling small Trees out with 3point

Good that Peters noticed that we may have been talking about two different operations--lifting small trees out of partially dug holes and a variation of stump pulling.

Pulling up with the 3ph is much like carrying a load. There are some safety issues, but they are mostly related to moving heavy loads. Weight on the 3ph lightens the front, which can result in reduced front wheel drive traction and steering. A load shift or a bump can cause steering and traction to go from marginal to nothing at exactly the wrong time. I frequently put weight in the loader to balance a heavy 3ph load and ensure adequate steering and traction.

Draft load is another question, and Peters described how I understand it. Basically, if you drop an anchor off the back of a truck, it just hits the end of the line and spins it's tires. Tractors have weight distributions that favour the rear and they also have high traction rear tires. Anchor a tractor and it can climb its own wheels rather than spin them.

With a 3ph, the backward rotation of a pulled ground engaging implements is transferred by the top-line to a point above the axles, which places more load on the front end. It's sort of a cantilever action. Many implements such as 3ph drawbars are not designed to produce appreciable top-link compression and are at least conceptually less safe. However, most things moved with a 3ph drawbar aren't going to stop a tractor like a plow hitting a root either, and such devices are commonly used. It's good to understand the safety issues though.

If such things are used, it's best to keep the 3ph low. If the hitch is up, I think that part of the draft load is transferred through the lift arms to the rocker shaft. The rocker shaft is above the axles and load there would serve to lift the front. However, this is starting to be more 'visualizing geometry' for me so I'll stop.






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