Heaviest 6-foot disc top-end compacts can pull?: Tractor Implements  -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum and Review Heaviest 6-foot disc top-end compacts can pull?: Tractor Implements -- Tractor Attachments Implements 3ph Discussion Forum

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 10-06-2000, 01:57 Post: 20359
Bob Josaitis



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 Heaviest 6-foot disc top-end compacts can pull?

This question is for top-end compact tractor owners (45-48 gross engine h.p., 4-wheel drive, gear and HST trannys) who have experience with 6-foot integral or pull-type discs: What's the heaviest 6-foot disc you have been able to successfully pull? ("successfully" means usage for several hours at a time without tractor damage). Please specify your tire type (R1, R4), soil conditions (sandy loam, etc.) and vegetation conditions (cropland, moderate corn residue, etc.). I have need for a new tractor to manage 5-15 acres of food plots annually in addition to mowing about 3 miles of grass in tree sheltbelt rows each month from April through October. I can purchase the JD 5310 and NH TN70 and know they will do all that I ask on my wildlife farm operation, but I am intrigued by the top-end compacts and would find them better suited and flat-out more fun for my mowing operations (80% time). However, I'm afraid they will fall down on the annual food plot jobs (disking corn, sunflower, and millet residue each spring following rotary mowing, etc.). I'll go compact (NH TC45/45D, JD 4700, etc.) if they can pull a 6-foot disc that can produce 250 pounds of weight per disc-foot or better, or in other words a 6-foot integral disc weighing 1500 pounds or more. Thanks for your experienced answer!






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 10-06-2000, 10:58 Post: 20370
Art White

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 Heaviest 6-foot disc top-end compacts can pull?

The Kubota L-series lift in excess of what you are looking for. On the other side of the fence who is building the disc you are looking at that is three point hook up with over 250lbs per foot of cut? How about the use of a roto-tiller?






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 10-06-2000, 16:15 Post: 20380
DavidV



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 Heaviest 6-foot disc top-end compacts can pull?

Bob,

All of the top-end compact tractors will lift that weight but as you mention the main issue is whether the tranny/drivetrain can handle extended periods of pulling that drag.

I have a TC40D but have not used any disc with it. Based on my past experience using discs (8ft) on gear tractors in the range of 50 to 75 hp I would be a little hesitant about using an HST with that kind of drag. You might want to see if your dealer has any recommendation and if they would be willing to let you try an unit. If the small unit does not work then they get to sell you a larger unit. Most dealers, if they have the units available, will be willing to work out some type of arrangement.

DaveV






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 10-06-2000, 22:27 Post: 20384
Bob Josaitis



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 Heaviest 6-foot disc top-end compacts can pull?

Thank you gentlemen for your reply, but please re-read the question: pulling, not lifting, etc. I realize all of the top-end compacts can lift a 1500 lb. disc (perhaps with a little ballast). Art: see top of page, "Tufline" ad, they have two integral 6'4" discs at 1693 pounds (model HL91622) and 1925 pounds (model HL91624)in their brochure; (other sources: many, including any regular 1000 pound 6-foot disc with 500 pounds ballast!). As for the roto-tiller, some of my food plot fields have what we here in southern Idaho call "floaters", occasional rocks 4-20 inches diameter randomly scattered waiting to get ya. The other thing that floats is the pen across my checkbook paying for tiller parts. Discs work fine through floaters. (Other tiller downsides include limited width on only 37-40 PTO horsepower tractors, i.e. 50-60 inch tillers which, even at a too-fast 1 mph for heavy residue, would still take 16.5 hours to prep two 5-acre plots, even without turning time factored in (1mph=5280 feet/h x 5ft tiller width=26,400 sq.ft tilled per hour (without turns) divided into 435,600 sq.ft (10 acres)=16.5 hrs.) I could live with that since the compacts look so fun to work with, but I'd rather spend 3 hrs with a disc a couple of times over and then move on to planting, mowing, etc.) David: thanks for the "try and see" strategy. Guess I could get that NH dealer who wants me buy a TC45/45D a run for his money, see how serious he is. But if I buy the 1500 pound 6-foot disc I like (he wouldn't have one) to try with a Boomer, if it didn't work I'd be stuck with a "little" disc when I purchase a JD5310, NHTN70, or Kubota M6800, which can handle 8 or 10 foot discs no prob. Guys, I want to make this top-end compact thing work, but if nobody has practical experience with my said question above, guess I'll have to take that as a "no", ......and I'd better go buy the 5310/70/6800 and live with more tractor than I need for my 80% time shelterbelt mowing. (Yes, I could custom hire the tillage jobs out and use the compact for everything else, but this would make too much sense and not be enough fun!).






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 10-07-2000, 14:08 Post: 20399
Art White

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 Heaviest 6-foot disc top-end compacts can pull?

Dealing with the major lines I carry I didn't do any exploring before I wrote before. Now you have my attention! Putting your numbers on a chart that I have it tells me that you should be able to pull a 2000lb disc with a 30 (get this) drawbar horsepower tractor at 3.5 miles per hour and till roughly 3 acres per hour. Now that equates to a roughly 40pto horse power tractor. Now the variables are type of soil which with your rocks makes little difference because they will pick up the disc, and your ground speed but that should not be over 4 miles per hour as most all discs will plane out of the ground. With the stones you should be looking at a 9" spacing even though it leaves a rougher finish it will drop in over the smaller stones.






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 10-08-2000, 04:43 Post: 20415
Bob Josaitis



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 Heaviest 6-foot disc top-end compacts can pull?

Art,your chart sounds valuable--any chance you could tell me where I could get the same?--would be greatly appreciated. Interesting you find a 40 PTO hp tractor to have 30 drawbar hp, that was my guess based on my calculation derived from the Nebraska Tractor Test for the JD5310. It has 43.49 drawbar hp on a 63 hp engine, or drawbar = 69% of engine hp for that tractor. A 45 gross hp compact (40 PTO) by the same 69% therefore comes to 31 drawbar hp by the Bob Tractor Test (certified uncertified). Of course, the 69% relationship may not fully apply since the 5310 is a 5000 pound unit, and the compacts top out at only 3500 pounds unballasted--need to know how heavy your 40 PTO tractor was that gave 30 drawbar hp). Anyways, according to your numbers, sounds like I might have some wiggle room pulling a 1500 or 1600 pound disc. Sure would, however, like to hear from somebody on THE BOARD to find out for sure. Spending $20-$25K on a compact that doesn't quite do the job is a hard pill to swallow, considering that for just a few thousand more (not much extra over the life of tractor) I could have had a 5310/TN70/M6800. Guess if I had to I could go with a compact and when time comes to primary till go get the neighbor's 200 hp tractor as usual and eat custom crow. Regardless, if I go compact sounds like I had better get a gear tranny for the discing, even though I would miss a HST for the miles of mowing shelterbelts. Does your chart have any info on compacts pulling chisel plow shanks (real shanks, not the lightweights). I'm guessing 3 chisels on a heavy toolbar would be max, but 5 would be perfect (one shank behind each tire and 3 shanks between tires). I've had great luck with chisel plows on my fields south of the river that have the floater rocks--the rocks stay down during chiseling. I have a 17 acre field north of the river that I would also like to put food plots on--not a rock to be found that side of the river. This would be great roto-tiller country, but would like to prep soil with chisel prior to tilling. Therefore, how many chisel shanks (real shanks) I could pull behind a 45 engine hp compact 8-10 inches deep in silt loam soil would also be important info for me. Your chart have anything that way?






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 10-08-2000, 17:41 Post: 20421
Jeff H.



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 Heaviest 6-foot disc top-end compacts can pull?

Hey Bob, just bought a 4600 last month and also bought a 6' disc but have not put the cat 1 pins on it yet. I have some plowed ground I would like to try and some weedy ground to cut up before winter. Problem is, it just rained 4 incehs last week and 2 1/2" after that so I won't be gong to the field real soon without compacting the ground but if you'd like you can email me at Jeff.Hammes@motorola.com and let me know if you are interested in the test before you buy as I do not read these forums every week.

Let me know,

Jeff

P.S. It was a used disc so it's like an old case that is pretty heavy, not a new lightweight.






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 10-08-2000, 21:23 Post: 20430
John Pike



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 Heaviest 6-foot disc top-end compacts can pull?

I have been pulling a 6 1/2 foot disc with an NH 3415. The 3415 would pull it anyway I wanted to. Also pulls two 14 inch flat bottom plows really well. I had 14.9X24 R1 tires and heavy clay soil. It's the weight that matter when pulling AG equipment. That's why some of the old AG tractors weighted 2 tons or more, but only had 25 hp. I am trading for a TN65, it is considered a three plow, 8 foot disc tractor. Hope this helps. John






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 00-00-0000, 00:00 Post: 20439
Bob Josaitis



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 Heaviest 6-foot disc top-end compacts can pull?

Jeff, will do, got your email address--thanks! John, as I understand it your NH3415 is about 3500 pounds and two-wheel drive with 44 engine hp, correct me if I'm wrong. Questions: about how heavy is your 6.5 foot disc, and what size discs (18", 20", 22"?) What kind of residue or veg are you using it on? Bottom line I guess is does it do a good job for you in a couple of passes or do you have to end up going over the field 4 times to get good work-down? Thanks for your response. P.S.--I'm also considering the utility NHs, can you give me the skinny as to why you're moving up to the TN65 rather than a Boomer after using a 3415? Just wondering if your situation for hp/weight is similar to mine--I'm on the border. I can justify spending the extra money for the TN series since over the life of a tractor it is money well spent if it does everything you want, but on the other hand if a compact can do the job.......






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 10-09-2000, 21:35 Post: 20463
John Pike



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 Heaviest 6-foot disc top-end compacts can pull?

Bob

You are about correct on the 3415, I think it is 3600 pounds and 47 hp. My disk is quite heavy and probably 20 inch blades. I can't remember the name of the disk, althought it is a brand that is common here in the South. I live in town and all our children are on a cruise, so there is no one at the farm for me to ask. It will cut thru grass pretty good, but if you have a hard sod, no disk will cut it, it takes a breaking plow to defeat it, and then about two trips with the disk, and one trip with a section harrow, then you will have a fine seed bed. I also have a 5 foot tiller that will really eat up the soil, but every hard sod is to much for it also.
I am moving up to the TN65 to get a real AG tractor instead of a compact. I plan to use some hay equipment in the future and a compact is just not heavy enough to handle a hay roller. Driving into a 20 acre field with a compact is somewhat intimidating. Althought I will have to say, the 3415 is quite a tractor, it's larger than it appears and is very strong. Besides one always thinks he needs a bigger tractor.
John






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