Kioti DK40 Review -- 95 Hours and no problems !: Kioti Tractor  -- Other Tractor Brands Discussion Forum and Review Kioti DK40 Review -- 95 Hours and no problems !: Kioti Tractor -- Other Tractor Brands Discussion Forum

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 01-08-2009, 17:17 Post: 159228
earthwrks

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 Kioti DK40 Review -- 95 Hours and no problems !

Ann I think what Murf is getting at is the petroleum oil has to have some "shearing" ability to allow the metal of the rings AND the cylinder walls to seat or "break-in" together, the purpose being to polish the visible and microscopic scratches or grooves left by the cylinder honing process. This also applies to the crank journal and rod bearings.

Amsoil in particular, which is animal-fat based if I remember correctly, does not shear well hence its preference for lubricity. After the break-in period I don't see why synthetics can't be used.

However, going back to shearing, this is necessary in some wet braking system and especially in wet clutches like a motorcycle has.






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 01-08-2009, 18:44 Post: 159231
Luckyfly



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 Kioti DK40 Review -- 95 Hours and no problems !

Yes, kthompson, I have seen it written "Nothing runs like
a Deere.....with a Kioti chasing it!" And that is funny!
Actually, there are a lot of good tractors out there. I
liked the way the Kioti was built and operated, and the
dealer was very easy to deal with. Some people think that
it is a second rate tractor but mine is about as good as
it gets. My best friend has a "big name tractor" and it has
10 more hp than my Kioti yet my loader will pick up more
weight than his. His smokes all the time, especially on
start up, and drinks fuel. My Kioti barely smokes on cold
start-up and I can run on half the diesel that he uses.
His dealer is awful...high prices for shoddy work.
Only time will tell with the service for the Kioti.
Amsoil and Mobil-1 are both API rated. You could argue
about synthetic vs regular oil forever. I started using it
in my tractors in 1982 and the difference was so great that
it is all I have used for years. Transmissions going south, engines burning oil and cams going flat in trucks I used to move the tractors stopped when I switched to synthetic motor and gear lubes. I could write a research
paper on all of the testing I have done in my shop with
oil and filters over the last 25+ years.
For me it was a business lifesaver. I really enjoy having
a vehicle or tractor last way past it's regular lifespan.
Again, only time will tell.

Luckyfly






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 01-10-2009, 13:28 Post: 159272
AnnBrush



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 Kioti DK40 Review -- 95 Hours and no problems !

Happened to see this in Popular mechanics vol 186, no 2 - Feb 2009, page 92. Looks like the synthetic only after x hours of "running in" is a urban legend for modern vehicles (copied verbatim):

Car Clinic by Mike Allen - Popular Mechanics Automotive Editor
Quick Change
I bought a 2009 Ford Escape hybrid in September. It just turned 1000 miles on the odometer. I would like to change over to synthetic oil. At what mileage would you recommend I make the change?

Read the owner's manual. Your Escape is already factory-filled with a synthetic; to wit: Motorcraft SAE 5W-20 Premium Synthetic Blend. So you can change anytime, although Ford's service manual says you can use a mineral oil if you choose. Many vehicles on the market today are filled at the factory with synthetics. I've never subscribed to the theory that you should use mineral oil for 10,000 to 20,000 miles to get the engine broken in before changing over.

End of article.






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 01-10-2009, 14:35 Post: 159274
earthwrks

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 Kioti DK40 Review -- 95 Hours and no problems !

I'm no mechanic, but I think the article needs to be seen in context--Fords and more particularly the Focus. Plus that is a gas engine; we're talking diesels. Other considerations are vast like type of cylinder wall construction; if it has a cylinder liner or not; how all piston, rings and other parts were manufactured; advances in technology includuing materials and/or coatings; manufacturing tolerances--the list goes on.

I know first-hand from writing automotive service manuals, owners manuals and technical bulletins that just because a certain procedure isn't mentioned in a publication--break-in period for example--doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist. Many factors---firstly and namely dollars---drive why certain things are or not mentioned in publications. A publication goes through sometimes 5 different departments with many rewrites are reviews. Typically, literally things have to be negotiated behind closed doors with the writers, sales and the lawyers. The lawyers win everytime.






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 01-12-2009, 09:13 Post: 159335
AnnBrush



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 Kioti DK40 Review -- 95 Hours and no problems !

EW that may be so. But so far no one has offered a logical mechanical reason that can be backed up by a reference as to WHY synthetics should not be used during breakin. In these cases my BS meter says "yep sounds like BS to me".






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 01-12-2009, 10:09 Post: 159341
Murf

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 Kioti DK40 Review -- 95 Hours and no problems !

Ann, sorry I missed your question.

EW is of course right, it is because of the need for the rings to properly seat against the cylinder walls, as well as the need for various engine parts to properly achieve stress relief following the manufacturing process.

If it will help lower the reading on your BS meter, here's what John Deere themselves say about it in a roundabout sort of way;

"John Deere Break-In Oil
from John Deere product support

Background

The first 100 hours of operation are critical to the life and performance of an engine. During the first hours of operation, the rings and liners must seat (establish a pattern) for proper performance. If this does not occur, the life of the engine can be adversely affected.

This unique oil is formulated with special additives to allow the power cylinder components (pistons and liners) to "wear-in" while protecting other engine components (valve train and gears) from abnormal wear. These additives control piston and liner seating without scuffing. This oil also provides excellent piston deposit control. As a result, piston rings and liners establish a good wear pattern for maximum performance and extended engine life.

Important!

Do not use PLUS-50 oil or engine oils meeting API CH-4, API CG4, API CF4, ACEA E3, or ACEA E2 performance levels during the first 100 hours of operation of a new or rebuilt engine. These oils will not allow the engine to break-in properly."

Now in this case JD talk of 100 hours because that is the drain interval for the "break in" oil that the unit is filled with from the factory. However in other factory publications I've read (but can't lay my hands on this instant) they speak of using "conventional" oils for no less than the first 250-500 hours of use in order to ensure proper break-in.

There is other data out there, including the article you quote, but as was already mentioned, don't think for a moment the engine in a Kioti DK40 and a Ford Escape hybrid are even remotely similar in many things, especially manufacturing processes and the materials used.

My most recent car came from the factory with Mobil 1 synthetic in it. I suspect however a hand-built AMG engine is not quite the same as a diesel built in an Asian plant.

Best of luck.






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 01-12-2009, 13:45 Post: 159352
AnnBrush



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 Kioti DK40 Review -- 95 Hours and no problems !

It's not a slam dunk, looks like it has to do with the quality of the engine manufacture process. Here is a good article:

http://www.stealth316.com/2-breakin.htm






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 01-12-2009, 13:58 Post: 159353
Luckyfly



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 Kioti DK40 Review -- 95 Hours and no problems !

I think AnnBrush has it right. GM has used synthetic as a
factory fill for their Corvettes and some of their Cadillacs for years. Like I said before, everything I bought since 1982 has had synthetic put in it since new.
I have taken brand new generators out of the box, filled
them with synthetic, started them up and the engine never used oil. Same for $12,000 Zero Turn mowers, cars, trucks and tractors. My Kioti has synthetic in everything
including the gear box on the mower. It would seem to me
that in 27 years if you could not use synthetic in a new
engine I would have had at least ONE engine go bad.
Sorry, it didn't happen. I'm sure people get a lemon every
once in a while and say, "Oh , that sorry synthetic oil
ruined my engine!"
I have used synthetics from BMW engines all the way down to
cheap lawn mower engines with no problems.
Tell you what. You go buy a new John Deere, use dino oil
in it and in about 25 years when it dies call me and if
I'm still alive I'll take my Kioti (running on synthetic)
and use it to drag your worn out tractor to the scrap
yard! And I won't burn any oil doing it!
And that's the truth!






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 01-12-2009, 14:28 Post: 159354
kwschumm

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 Kioti DK40 Review -- 95 Hours and no problems !

My guess is that it depends completely on how tightly controlled the machined tolerances are when new. My brother told me a story about the difference between Japanese and US automotive manufacturing. In the US they would machine cranks and cams to tolerances like +/- 0.005". In Japan no tolerance was allowed - it was +/- 0.000" (which really is +/-0.0004"Wink yeah right but you get the idea.

It seems to me that if an oil is particularly resistant to pressure then it would certainly permit less wear. I remember one new car I had that was switched to synthetics after 10k miles, after 100k miles I pulled the heads and it looked new. You could not tell on the lifters where the lobes made contact (OHC engine).

Anyway, this is all anecdotal. If anyone wants to research this you can probably find all you need at this site.






Link:   Bob Is The Oil Guy 

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 01-12-2009, 15:00 Post: 159356
Murf

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 Kioti DK40 Review -- 95 Hours and no problems !

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnnBrush | view 159352
It's not a slam dunk, looks like it has to do with the quality of the engine manufacture process.



Very well put! That was EXACTLY my point in the first place.

You can't merely say that because a hand-built, finely crafted engine can run synthetic from day 1 all engines can do the same.

If conventional oil provides sufficient lubrication, and regular changes keeps it clean, what more can you gain by throwing away $100 worth of oil every 100 hours instead of $20 worth of oil?

Best of luck.






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Discussion Boards > Active Subjects > Messages as Posted > Kioti Tractor Forum

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